I learnt poll tactics from the BJP, and I’m using the same formula: Akhilesh Yadav

Absence of a PM face won’t be a drawback to the Opposition, and regional parties may win more seats than the Congress and the BJP, says former U.P. CM

February 18, 2019 12:54 am | Updated 05:45 pm IST - LUCKNOW

Akhilesh Yadav. File

Akhilesh Yadav. File

Samajwadi Party president and former Uttar Pradesh Chief Minister   Akhilesh Yadav   talks about the State’s politics, his party’s tie-up with the BSP, and the wider Opposition unity in the run-up to the Lok Sabha elections. Excerpts:

Tell us how was your alliance with Mayawati clinched?

The alliance started off with the by-elections [2018]. And I wanted [to win] from [the seat] where the CM [Yogi Adityanath] won elections many times, never losing. With an anti-Muslim pitch, he would win elections. I gave the ticket to the son of the Nishad Party president. I got my party’s vote transferred. Similarly, I took support from the BSP and got their vote transferred. And we won the seat. The by-elections gave us a start.

In the 2014 and 2017 elections, BJP people said they didn’t have any alliance but in U.P. itself, they had alliances with Rajbhar’s party [Suheldev Bharatiya Samaj Party] and Apna Dal. Then they broke away big leaders of the BSP on the basis of caste. They elected a backward as their State president — sending a message among the OBCs that a backward will be CM — and won by lying to them. The BJP’s vote percentage was high. Other than this, we had no other political means to stop the BJP.

You are saying that Gorakhpur was an experiment that worked for you? 

This experiment happened in Gorakhpur, Phulpur, Kairana and then Noorpur. They lost four seats. I had given my candidate to the RLD [Rashtriya Lok Dal] and taken one candidate from another party; the symbol in Gorakhpur was cycle, in Kairana it was handpump. Political management of this kind, I did it for the first time. I had done a lot of work, but along with the work arithmetic is necessary. And this is what the BJP does.

Basically you are saying you are using the BJP's own tactics. 

True. I have learnt this from the BJP. And I’m using the formula against them.

At the end of the day, U.P. elections is about arithmetic, you would say?

Arithmetic plus work. Now, if we look at the Prime Minister's speech in the Lok Sabha, he is counting the work done by him: so many jobs, so many people driving taxis, so many vendors, so many waiters. But the BJP did not seek votes on work. They had contested the election on communal lines, sought votes by setting castes against each other. In one of his speeches [in 2017], the PM said  kabristan  and  shamshan , and that U.P. is giving more electricity on Ramzan and less on Diwali. This was their election. At many places, he said this smartly in speeches that in U.P. there are such examinations where those who fail are passed, while those who pass are failed.

You have said that you ended a 25-year dispute with the BSP in 25 minutes. What happened in those 25 minutes?

This is the truth. If you have to improve your relationship with another party, you can't press your complaints and conditions too much when you have a bigger goal. I feel that the BJP divided the country on the basis of caste and religion, created a trench of hate between Hindus and Muslims. My bigger goal is that a party with an ideology like the BJP's is removed. I did not put any conditions [with Mayawati]. And when that happens, talks become easier. 

Any conditions from her side?

No conditions from her side as well. Since there were no conditions from my side, even if there was something, I would not know of it.

You also have a good equation with Rahul Gandhi and fought the 2017 Assembly elections together.  How come that chemistry did not translate into a broader alliance with the Congress in 2019? 

It is the responsibility of the Congress to bring together all parties, and it had the opportunity in the M.P., Chhattisgarh and Rajasthan elections. My party had a reach and organisation only in M.P.  They had an opportunity for an alliance in which all parties would come together. Who is asking for how many [seats] is a different issue. I don't know what the Congress was thinking in not having an alliance. Despite that, in M.P. when they needed support, their various leaders sought the support of our MLA, we and the BSP supported them. And they had promised my MLA [a ministerial post]...so I said it's a good thing you didn't make my MLA a Minister, that our paths are separate. They missed that opportunity.

Attitude of the Congress has had a bearing on the...

I wouldn't say attitude but it appears their strategy is to contest alone everywhere. In such a big fight in which the BJP has damaged the country, they don't want to help us in that fight. They want to build their party. I have sacrificed 40 seats; Mayawatiji has also done the same.

Is there still any scope for involving the Congress in the run-up to the polls? They are a national party, as you pointed out.

They are a national party but they don't have a presence in U.P. We don't want the BJP to win. Nothing we do should give the advantage to the BJP. [An understanding with the Congress] looks difficult at this moment.

What will be the impact of Priyanka Gandhi Vadra?

It's difficult to say anything right now because the U.P. voter is very sensible.

A lot of people ask the question that if there is a non-BJP coalition government in 2019, will it be able to run the country and provide effective leadership?

All previous governments have been coalitions. A coalition government decided on the nuclear deal. Manmohan Singhji was PM for 10 years. And this is also a coalition government, not a BJP government but an NDA government.

It doesn't behave as an alliance government, but a BJP one. Plus, they have a face in Modi. Who do you have, you are being asked.

Manmohan ji's name was not announced. Alliance governments have worked. The question is not the face. A face can come anytime. I ask them that if their current face fails, what alternative do they have?

So you don't think the absence of a face is a drawback to the non-BJP opposition parties? 

I will say something else. All our regional leaders, are they faces or not? In West Bengal, Mamataji is a bigger leader than any other national leader there. Then you have us two in U.P. and others. Then in Telangana, Tamil Nadu, Odisha, you see...it may happen that regional parties win more seats than Congress and BJP.

Do you have PM aspirations? 

No. But I want to make a new PM, support a new PM. The PM can be made from anywhere. But a person like me will be happy if it is from U.P. 

You think the country could have a Dalit PM, who is also a woman? 

Why not… you might discover that even the Congress will extend support on such an issue.

Suppose in a hypothetical situation, after the LS results are out, and you are pleased with your results and between the BSP and you, you get 50-60 seats, then will you propose that India should have a woman Dalit PM? 

I will not say this at this moment. My focus is that we both win more seats together.

There are talks that you won't find it easy to transfer votes to each other, especially the Yadavs to BSP, because of the social conflict for so many years. 

That's why I said first we did the same thing in two elections. Votes were transferred. But those who say that the SP vote won't transfer... the Opposition will say something and lie, won't they? The BJP will say something. 

Why do you think there will be no problem in transfer of votes? What will motivate the voters, the alliance or something else?

So much injustice is happening with people. If they find out somebody is from the SP, and you will remember Governor sahab would write letters once in a while saying that all postings are held by Yadavs, so many IAS, IPS...but the constable recruitment is still the same. They allege ours was a government of Yadavs. And if they find out that one is a Yadav, then they do a lot of injustice. And due to injustice, they (Yadavs) are united. 

Second, the BJP government formed a commission to find out how many Yadavs are in service. The report is out but they are not disclosing it. Because they know that Yadavs are not in services. Some other community people are more in services. Kurmis are more there. Jat are also in good numbers. So the hate they are spreading, that if they see a Yadav he will be thrown out or beaten with a police lathi. What did they do in Allahabad yesterday, it's the same thing. They selected whom they wanted to thrash...

Why do you think you were stopped from going to Allahabad? 

The ABVP people have been losing badly [in Allahabad University Students Union] for the past few elections. When the results were announced, they burned the dormitory and room of the person [SP candidate who won]. Not a single ABVP person has been caught till date. And before I went there, three bombs were thrown at the stage. ABVP students did it. But it was not covered anywhere. They are not arresting ABVP persons, but detaining us and not allowing us to go to the university. Who is disturbing the university campus? They say that political people should not enter the campus, but at the same time, they say they feel proud that the university gave two PMs, so many Chief Ministers, MP and leaders. This is happening because all the people sitting there have taken an oath of the RSS. 

Do you fear that the way you were stopped can become a pattern in the days ahead? Can they impose restrictions on your movement? 

It's possible. If I want to go check on the students who have been injured, maybe they won't allow me to go. But see those who have CRPC sections against them, both of them [Amit Shah and Yogi Adityanath] have gone to Allahabad [for Kumbh Snan]. Such gentlemen.

To return to the national scene, Chandrababu Naidu has said that it might not be a bad idea for some of the Opposition parties to have a pre-poll alliance ahead of the Lok Sabha elections. You think it is a possibility?

We are all meeting already, you call it an alliance or not. We were all there in Mamataji’s programme. 

Do you think you and the BSP will have a common manifesto for the Lok Sabha elections or will you contest on separate platforms?

Some issues could be common, not many. 

For example?

By applying the roster system they are throwing out everyone from universities; people are not getting jobs. If you are a backward or a Dalit, you don't have the right to study or teach. This could be an issue. And now the government has come up with a GO [government order] that 10% reservation would be allowed in the general category too. Then you must also allow OBC and Dalit in general category, but they are not allowing. 

Yogi Adityanath said the SP-BSP alliance is one between a snake and a mole rat. In 2014 and 2017, your pitch was about development. But today you are also trying to work on the arithmetic. 

If you recall, after the Gorakhpur results, people were talking about how the snake and the mole rat bit the BJP...

So how many marks will you give the Yogi government on his performance? Pass or fail?

They are unable to even stop the bulls in the fields, what marks to give...The CM has failed on all fronts. If you look at his work so far, all he has done is denting and painting of schools and colleges, changed names and inaugurated already existing projects. They have not been able to execute any big project so far. And all their promises in their election manifesto, be it distributing laptops, MSP to farmers or clearing sugarcane dues in 14 days, they have failed to fulfil.

How serious is the issue of stray cattle in U.P.?

Quite serious. Farmers have faced a lot of damage, people have lost their lives. Two farmers died in Gonda, one died of shock in Agra. Many people have died in an accident in Bundelkhand. Their own Ministers have suffered accidents. It was called pashudhan because when the farmer's cows stopped giving milk, he sold it. He didn't care where the cow went. With that money, he would buy another cow. Now they have disrupted that entire chain. The farmer, doesn't want to keep a cow. The population of cows will fall in coming years.

U.P. has also seen a spree of encounter killings under the Yogi government.

The government has not received as many notices from the human rights commission like they have now. The Supreme Court has also made observations on many occasions. Many officials will go to jail, as many NGOs and people and kin are working on it and providing details to the court.

I said it in a press conference that officers are carrying out encounters to stop their transfers and posting. Because encounters stop posting and they do it for a better posting. They have killed many in encounters. I call it the ' thoko neeti ' because the CM himself uses such language. 

And you saw in Lucknow, an Apple employee was killed by a policeman. There are many examples. A gym instructor in Noida, Jitendra Yadav, was shot, and even today he is bed-ridden. A Muslim who ran a trolley in Shamli was killed. Then a Gujjar lad and a Rajbhar in Azamgarh. A Station Officer in Lucknow once had a tiff with a student from Sultanpur. And when the SO was transferred to Sultanpur, he used his old animosity to try encounter the boy. Luckily, the boy was shot in the leg and survived. If you look at the list of the dead, there are more of Muslims, backwards and Dalits. A particular section of society is being targeted and shown as criminals.

Has the BJP made you feel that you are an OBC?

I have thanked them for this. At least they showed me a way in politics by calling me backward. But my work is forward. Our work is visionary. If they are really forward, then we made a highway in 21 months, they should make it in 19 months. Otherwise they are more backward than us. They said I am backward. Can you recall any other occasion when the CM house was cleansed with gangajal?

There are corruption charges popping up against you, the mining case, and Mayawati as well with the statue building issue.

In the mining case, I will reply once I get the notice. But all the officials [involved] are in Delhi these days. One in Defence [Ministry], another in NITI Aayog. I was the CM and I was getting the files from below. As far as the Gomti riverfront goes, their only problem is that I built a better one than the riverfront on Sabarmati in Ahmedabad. That's why the CBI and the ED. The civil constriction company, which built the Sabarmati riverfront is working here too. There also must have been corruption in the Sabarmati project then? 

What will be the impact of Shivpal Yadav, your uncle?

The BJP will form many small parties in U.P. in the build-up to the polls. And cause conflict between castes and in society. It has no other way. What happened to the Ujjwala scheme? Nobody is filling cylinders, no toilet has water, there is total corruption in PMAY [Pradhan Mantri Awas Yojana] with incomplete homes, ODF [open defecation-free] villages are still without toilets... Even today, farmers are waiting for the MSP (minimum support price).

Agrarian distress will be a big issue?

Of course, second is jobs. People are not getting jobs. More than 700 'siksha mitras' have ended their lives. But the biggest issue is the lies of the BJP. People have seen through them. In elections, sometimes caste and religion work more, but people are convinced that the BJP lies a lot.

Do you think the details of the Rafale deal, which have been exposed in the media, including  The Hindu , could be an election issue?

I feel the message has gone to the people on the issue of Rafale, that there is something wrong. Time will tell what the truth is. But unemployment and farmers’ woes are big issues.

Why do you think the BJP and the RSS withdrew the agitation on the Ram Mandir?

The BJP feels that there is some awareness among people. And their difficulties and troubles are big issues. These cannot be entangled.

0 / 0
Sign in to unlock member-only benefits!
  • Access 10 free stories every month
  • Save stories to read later
  • Access to comment on every story
  • Sign-up/manage your newsletter subscriptions with a single click
  • Get notified by email for early access to discounts & offers on our products
Sign in

Comments

Comments have to be in English, and in full sentences. They cannot be abusive or personal. Please abide by our community guidelines for posting your comments.

We have migrated to a new commenting platform. If you are already a registered user of The Hindu and logged in, you may continue to engage with our articles. If you do not have an account please register and login to post comments. Users can access their older comments by logging into their accounts on Vuukle.